Alex is also a regular on the BikeRadar YouTube channel and BikeRadar podcast. Climbs really well and descends like a beast. Take note of how much elevation you achieve during those rides (elevation is more important than distance when determining range), and keep that number in mind when youre planning future all-day epics. Simply enjoy what you are riding and watch the world, I should say, e-bike world, pass you by, as they are here to stay and while they are not perfect they are probably the best and most exciting thing to happen to the bike industry in 50 years! No ebike is perfect, this is a thread dedicated to sharing known issues or problems with electric motors from Shimano, their STePS system, as well as any help and solutions you know of. - Strong but very well-tuned power delivery Along with the fault-free performance weve experienced so far, wed have no hesitation in recommending a bike built around Shimano EP8 this is a high quality and well-rounded e-MTB system. Commencal which has sold a number of its Meta Power electric bikeswith an EP8 motor and e*thirteen crank combination replied to our inquiries. Both Shimano and e*thirteen recommend that you contact the place of purchase, which will be best-placed to investigate whether the failure is covered under either Shimanos or the bike manufacturers warranty. Does Shimano know why the spindles are snapping? The Shimano EP8 RS motor, the key to the experience. We asked Shimano and e*thirteen for comment on the spindle cracking issue. What's your experience on this? VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. While some frames will resonate more than others, the noise is otherwise normal, and it doesnt take long before your brain subconsciously ignores it. On top of that, you cant tune the Bosch motor like you can with EP8 theres no fancy app, and the stock assist settings arent adjustable what you see is what you get. We haven't really got an opinion about durability. While there were limited options to tweak the levels of the old E8000 and E7000 motors, EP8 takes it to the next level, allowing riders to alter the motors torque, acceleration and general on-trail character, resulting in a more personalised experience for dialling your e-MTB in for your riding style and terrain. As it stands, you have to use the small button at the base of the display to manually scroll through additional pages just to see your cadence, estimated range and the time. What a misstep by Shimano to join Bosch in its failure. Seeing if anyone else out there has had problems with their EP8. Still, that clutch design means it is impressively drag-free beyond the cutoff point. Like e*thirteen, Shimano appears to agree that if a consumer were to suffer spindle failure they should speak directly to whoever they bought their bike from, suggesting any motor replacement or repair costs would need to be covered by the bike manufacturer that decided to spec an EP8 motor with e*thirteen cranks. So far neither Shimano nor e*thirteen are assuming any replacement, but of course we dont let our customers down, says Commencal. Currently, I own two e-bikes with a new 2022 Moustache Samedi 26 Fat 4 with the Bosch Motor on its way. I'm not an ebike hater - but (you knew it was coming) - I can't ever see myself being able to justify the expense of one and I wouldn't like to risk a second hand one. While weve certainly been impressed by the power, ride feel and tuneability of the Shimano EP8 system, how does it stack up against the likes of Bosch and Brose/Specialized? This means its impossible to tell whether you have 21% or 39% battery remaining. When new the last bar of charge corresponds to roughly 15-20% charge, but over time this becomes 5-10%. With the new EP8, Shimano managed to close the gap to its biggest competitors. This means that if you ride in the default Trail and Boost settings, youll actually end up with a similar total range as the old E8000 motor, albeit with the benefit of more power and assistance throughout the ride. - A little more overrun on technical climbs would be swell How many instances of this problem has Shimano encountered? Don't all e-bikes feature walk assist? "but since I have to hit the small button repeatedly when my battery charge becomes critical on some rides". There's 21-percent more torque (85 N/m total) in Trail and Boost modes. While the EP8s performance on the climbs is generally excellent, we have occasionally wished for a little more overrun for clearing technical features. The low profile EM800 display takes up minimal space next to the stem, featuring a crystal-clear screen with colour-coded graphics to easily identify which assist setting youre in. On top of that, you cant tune the Bosch motor like you can with EP8 theres no fancy app, and the stock assist settings arent adjustable at all. JavaScript is disabled. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. Can they make it swappable with a gear box? Given the detail published in e*thirteens TSB 157, we wanted to give Shimano the opportunity to present its side of the story, and ask some further questions. Update. If youre sprinting at speed, the Levo feels sticky and lazy in comparison to the drag-free EP8 motor. The versatile and powerful SHIMANO EP8 (EP800) e-bike system can be found on a wide range of brands and models. As in, we totally forgot about it altogether. He started racing downhill at the tender age of 11 before going on to compete across Europe. And just read any car review of the blend between regenerative braking and hydraulic, then decide whether you want a computer deciding to regen as you roll off a drop regen braking is pretty much impossible on an ebike as it requires the use of a direct drive motor. The clicking sound has no effect on the function or durability of the drive unit. Start with a full battery, select the Trail mode, and see how far you can go before you run out of juice. Oh man, so that must mean you know of rigs they've received that they've not done first rides and then field tests on. Do you think it could be only an issue with Carbon frames then? What would happen if a consumer noticed their axle was cracked in the way described on e*thirteens TSB? The new EP8 motor (DU-EP800) also is said to have 36% less drag than the original, thanks to redesigned seals and improved internal gear design. Just got my first 29er. All I could find is that bike manufacturers are to hold off selling the EP8 until Oct/Nov while they addresses some final issues. There are no reported cases of spindle breakage of DU-EP800 when assembled with Shimanos cranks. Overall its a vastly neater execution compared to the likes of Bosch and Yamaha with their Kinder Surprise-style switch units. But would the noise stop us from recommending an EP8-equipped bike? Can I give 100 upvotes please? So this one article, about this one e-bike, says to you that ALL e-bikes lack refinement and therefore aren't worthy of you gracing them with your holy ass? What ever happened to grit?!?! I would have respected Shimano more if they owned it and were more forthright about working to resolve it. Shimano EP8 motor bottom bracket spindle failures caused by manufacturing defects, ethirteen claims. All bikes [have been] assembled with Shimano cranks since 2021 April.. Is this a review for ants? Come join the discussion about bike parts, components, deals, performance, modifications, classifieds, trails, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more! If there is no threadlocker patch, move onto point 2c. That makes it tricky to work out how much assistance youll be finishing your ride with. That results in a big improvement in how far you can go on the same battery capacity - Shimano claims a 20% increase in range as a result. Weve checked each of their axle spindles and can confirm none are showing any signs of cracking or damage. Specialized is close to this. So when the new version is so much better Refinement is all relative. Yes, we understand how and why spindle breakage may occur when some non-Shimano cranks are used with our DU-EP800 drive unit. - Tuning options are simple and effective The YT Decoy also utilises its own 520Wh battery and the the Orbea Rise is built around a smaller 360Wh battery. I rode an e bike and suffered a little bit yesterday. As expected, the new Shimano EP8 motor gets a hefty boost in power, with a claimed maximum torque output of 85 Nm. It isnt a huge difference, but sometimes its just enough for your rear wheel to make it up and over a stubborn tree root or rock ledge. The EM800 display features built-in Bluetooth and ANT+ wireless connectivity for pairing both your phone and a compatible GPS head unit, allowing you to display information such as battery life and remaining range. On one ride with the Canyon Spectral:ON, the range estimation initially showed 25km. On my e8000, my impression was (now on a Trek Rail w a Bosch gen 4) that if you were at two bars, you were really at one, and if you were at one, youd better be a couple of blocks from home. It's a powerful unit with a huge reach, but it has a little problem: it rattles when riding downhill or, simply put, there is no power on the pedals. However, all are fitted with Shimano cranks. Stab happy!". I have the EP8 on a Commencal Meta Power. Same with brose 2.1 & their motor failures. Hopefully your SC dealer will be the concierge for a warranty issue if it's a broke. Would you like to receive offers, updates and events from BikeRadar and its publisher Our Media Ltd (an Immediate Group Company)? Again, shift it down one notch at a time to get a feel for the change. Also heard of this happening to another EP8 up in park city, 5 miles on the motor, and did the same thing mine did. It doesn't feel good. e*thirteen is at the table with bike brands to find a mutually acceptable solution that first takes care of keeping people on their bikes. "While we dont expect people to ride with their phone on their handlebars when mountain biking" - Buddy, you must not have seen many e-bike riders. They should follow the guidance in e*thirteens TSB 156, which shows how to correctly secure the pedal cranks to the bike, and what to do in order to verify your EP8 axle spindle is undamaged. Overall it is a very refined system though. 1. If you discover damage on your EP8 spindle, you should stop riding the bike immediately. The motors of electric bikes, such as the Shimano Steps EP8 are limited to a maximum speed of 25 km/h from the factory. If you don't like e-bikes for whatever reason, you really have no business even commenting on this review. Perfect? Basically, the battery level drops from around 30% to 2% extremely quickly. The actual mechanism works well but is very easy to break, just turn the allen key the wrong way by mistake..it also gets clogged with mud and doesn't work, then you break it trying to release the battery, Sometimes, you need to go fast enough that the trail is a blur to find clarity. This is due to the internal clutch mechanism, which allows the motor to disconnect from the cranks when not in use, thereby decreasing drag and resistance. When they start looking (and weighing closer to regular trail bikes then I'll consider. Im the worlds biggest ebike fan & I quite agree. Its considerably bulkier than Shimano EP8, dominating the Levos frame profile while also putting limitations on rear wheel clearance. Pros - extremely quiet Cons - annoying rattling noisesums up 2020! Animals and Pets Anime Art Cars and Motor Vehicles Crafts and DIY Culture, Race, and Ethnicity Ethics and Philosophy Fashion Food and Drink History Hobbies Law Learning and Education Military Movies Music Place Podcasts and Streamers Politics Programming Reading, Writing, and Literature Religion and Spirituality Science Tabletop Games . Quick everyone, it's another article about e-bikes grab the pitchforks! It claims there have been no reported failures of Shimanos E7000 and E8000 motor spindles, even when used with the same e*spec ebike cranks. The Purion controller is vastly simpler and easy to read, but it looks cheap and its bulky, making it an awkward fit with brake and dropper levers. I have to admit some of the comments make me laugh out loud while others score some points for being helpful and based on fact, not hearsay fiction. The new motor, called EP8, is 10 percent smaller and is a lot lighter. Easy fix. It features the new Shimano EP8 motor and a 630wh battery. The MasterMind TCU head unit on the top tube is also as good as it gets, with a sharp and clear, but unobtrusive display that reduces clutter on the handlebars. I was sure it was a motor issue till I realized I needed to put the speed sensor on the new wheel. Thats given us plenty of saddle time to compare and contrast the new motor not only with E8000, but also with the latest Bosch Gen 4 motor and the Brose-manufactured 2.2 motor in the new Specialized Levo. What's left is just a plain old mountain bike with a weight around 14kg. Occasionally it can feel a little peakier compared to EP8, but for the most part both motors are easy to get used to within a few rides. 2. As soon as we got the first failures we [started to] spec Shimano [cranks] again but lead time[s] to get the first crank arms [was] quite long so we had some inertia in production. There are a lot of factors that influence range including rider weight, tyre choice, trail conditions, and elevation. I have no personal experience riding with pedal assist but when I hear the high whiz from the motor I think that would drive me mad too. This BT-8036 battery only needs a 4mm hex key to be released from the frame for charging separately, which is unlike Bosch that requires a special key (potentially something else to lose/forget). What this article says to me is that ebikes are no where never the level of refinement that I would require to give up a normal bike. Uh oh, another one E-triggered. As mentioned above, the Assistance Character bears the biggest influence on the motors on-trail feel, and dialling this down can make quite a big difference to the amount of range you can get from the battery. One owner reports a driveside failure on a Commencal Meta Power, the other on an Orbea Rise on the non-driveside. At 52+ lbs, you're going to be using that motor every pedal stroke. At full charge in Trail mode it says range is 90km or so but I haven't put that to the test on more mellow trail days but am sure others have. Its the Orbea Rise that achieves the most discreet integration however, with a frame that was purpose-built around the smaller EP8 motor, rather than having been retrofitted from a previous E8000 drive unit. Youll be finishing your ride with age of 11 before going on to across... Off selling the EP8 on a wide range of brands and models better Refinement is all relative Cons. Ep8, Shimano managed to close the gap to its biggest competitors suffered little! 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Its failure has Shimano encountered, such as the Shimano EP8, dominating the Levos frame while... Roughly 15-20 % charge, but over time this becomes 5-10 % 30 % to 2 % extremely quickly to! Range of brands and models your EP8 spindle, you really have no business even commenting on review... Gets a hefty Boost in Power, the key to the drag-free EP8 motor bottom bracket spindle failures caused manufacturing... A new 2022 Moustache Samedi 26 Fat 4 with the Canyon Spectral on! By Shimano to join Bosch in its failure confirm none are showing any signs of cracking or damage such the! Surprise-Style switch units their axle was cracked in the way described on *! Problem has Shimano encountered BikeRadar YouTube channel and BikeRadar podcast biggest ebike fan & I quite agree motors! Managed to close the gap to its biggest competitors at the tender age of before... Youll be finishing your ride with this a review for ants consumer noticed their axle spindles and can none! Shimano and e * thirteen for comment on the function or durability the... Impressively drag-free beyond the cutoff point battery, select the Trail mode, and elevation is.
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