And so have I. We've put together a list of some ways . I was wrong and truly apologize. so what. If the answer or NONE then you need to look at your own lives and see if correction is needed. Thats the other dallas todd wagner who is mark cubans partner. We are talking about a CHURCH here, not the mafia. These resources are found in Appendix V and Appendix VI at the end of this case study and in the clarifications given by Watermark in the section Watermark's Response to the Nation. It is not as simple as walking away. Pastors often receive the most judgement and its rarely considered that they likely face the most spiritual warfare. And why? Thats a new one on me. I worked at a mega church where homes were gifted to the church, then sold and the $$ put back into the church account. Thanks for sharing. That church is huge and has 2 campuses (at least) so I find it hard to believe you even know these elders yourself. Toward that end, the site requires that people use their full name when commenting. Incorrect. Life Stage Care and Recovery Equipping Outreach Serve Community Groups. I have edited some of her answers for content and length. How can you be under church discipline if you leave the church? You live by Elder-Rule, you die by Elder-Rule. Reminds me exactly like Steven Furtick and many other pastors. Andrew Bhatia even if 100% true (zero exaggeration or embroidery), it almost makes it sound like Todd was an unwitting victim of disproportionate generosity and was utterly helpless. I know I often do. There are 2 Todd Wagners in Dallas. 1 Pet 2:25 Its upto Him. You cant find any. One is very wealthy and likely the one who lives in the house you mentioned. In some ways this reminds me of the CJ Mahaney and Sovereign Grace debacle. Our church has an elder-type rule that is healthy, but I know of churches that have had an elder-type rule that is not so healthy. Former Pastor Accused of Rape Resigns from Churchome After TRR Investigation; Church Official Makes False Claims, Arkansas Youth Pastor Pleads Guilty to 13 Counts of Sexual Assault, EXCLUSIVE: John MacArthur Shamed, Excommunicated Mother for Refusing to Take Back Child Abuser, Days-long Revival Sweeping Asbury University in Kentucky, EXCLUSIVE: John MacArthur Covered Up Pastors Sexual Abuse, Witnesses Say, EXCLUSIVE: John MacArthurs Church Supported Convicted Child Abuser & Pedophile, Records Show, Dante Bowe Posts, Then Removes, Apology for Behavior Causing Split with Maverick City Music, Matt Chandler Steps Aside After Admitting Inappropriate Online Relationship, John MacArthur Pulls Out of Ligonier Conference, Pastor Resigns From Houston Megachurch After Admitting Affair, Televangelist Creflo Dollar Renounces Past Teachings on Tithing, But Questions Persist. Fellowship Church. As soon as I saw the pastor lived in a 15 million dollar house, that was it for me. Problem with a church goers these days is (they are simply judgmental- half the time without any knowledge or discernment. Im also a bit a sad with respond of David (elder) who is in the leadership role to show the love with staring at the congregation (may be because of challenges). There are no congregational votes nor do individual members have a 'say' in how things are handled. Thanks for the reply. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. Im not taking about prosperity- If you (as some I bet arent producing fruits but first one to take a shot at his house, cars and family. And this is important. The Watermark spokesperson explained that the church followed the Dallas Independent School District's "standard and customary process for this . I was blessed to attend Kanakuk for years and years. The elder team is interdependent of each other, creating a system in which it is impossible or highly difficult to discipline or remove any one elder. In September 2020, Wagner announced he was taking a leave of absence to work on pride issues. The twin resignations come after months of turmoil at the church. God has allowed the clarity and conviction that I need to not leave a snarky comment, to dry up.. You are experienced and know your Bible and subject. Case Summary. Create new account. what is lavish? Thank you for praying for me when I was a cigarette smoker snd 23 yrs of smoking addiction was lifted within a year or so afte that. There are people who are genuinely afraid to withdraw their membership for fear of being put under church discipline, pressure from the community group to conform, and outright harassment. like hes a programmed automaton. The Judge overseeing this case is TAPSCOTT, KEN. So you think women are getting a little uppity and having ideas above their station?. Watermark, a fast-growing nondenominational church in northeast Dallas, says the case involves accusations of adultery, a wife who wanted to save her marriage, a husband who sat on a board of a national Christian organization, and another woman who works for another church. I was so disappointed reading all the comments, especially when considering the targeted audience for this site. A major focus of the Community Groups at Watermark and many other churches is to foster the development of deep connection with a small group of fellow believers that enables true Christian accountability. Give a gift of $30 or more to The Roys Report this month, and you will receive Escaping the Maze of Spiritual Abuse by Dr. Lisa Oakley and Justin Humphreys. Once youve signed your life over to them, you must either form your own community group or go through the process of being placed in one. So unless this person gave away 7 more $1.5 million homes, they would not be taxed on any of those gifts ever. File photo of fans at a Dallas Stars . Prestonwood Baptist also made the list (top 20) and its nowhere near a cult. Also resigned is David Leventhal, an elder and teaching pastor at Watermark, who said he had lost trust in Wagners leadership. The over-humility seems fake, like false humility. They refuse to be honest so they can make a come back in a year or two. what is enough? Regardless I loved your passion and pray that Holy Spirit would cover you and lead you in the area that needs correction. On 05/28/2008 THE STATE OF TEXAS filed a Property - Eminent Domain lawsuit against WATERMARK COMMUNITY CHURCH. What bothered me about Todd is that he chooses to live in Highland Park even though the church is not physically in Highland Park (not even close). They did create it. Came off as legalistic trolling. Just because you havent personally experienced or have personal knowledge of these things happening does NOT mean they didnt happen to someone else. And some community groups are less intense. Did You Know This Church Is Closely Aligned with 9 Marx (sic) John Doe's attorney says his client is now considering a civil lawsuit against the church for slander. Thats for God to reveal or conceal. He added that there are just too many layers and that even Friedrich and Thompson land at a different place than (Leventhal and Wagner) regarding why weve arrived here., Both Wagner and Leventhal will remain at Watermark as elders emeritus, though the church said it is proactively pursuing men to add to the Elder team., According to the church website, Wagner and Leventhal will spend time with their families preparing for whatever the Lord has next.. For ye were as *sheep going astray;* It was meant to jerk everyones chain. Im with Scotty and Andy Wilson. Todd especially. The Porch. They are full-blown corporate performance reviews, except about twice as long as any Ive filled out. Its all a show for people to be conned into thinking your being godly. I am 63. It is the Lord Jesus who is in control after all folks. They have brought a civil lawsuit against the Church of Scientology for stalking and intimidation that occurred after they reported their assaults to the police. Many won't perform gay marriage. If your Parents were not rich and someone. Theres a lot of talk and a lot of Christianese language, but its still impossible to say exactly what happened or exactly what is and was going on. Speculation, in this context, equates to gossip, and at its heart, is pride. well, the current working job description for leaders of a big church is being ready, willing, and able to obfuscate, embroider the truth, and in some cases lie. Remember the verse when most friends depart, there is one who stays closer then the brother. Susan felt it was ironic that I had made a comparison between Scientology and Watermark Church, because she said those same comparisons helped her realize that she was not in a healthy church. Theyre all using so much jargon that its hard to figure out what any of it actually means. Poor Todd. Both Wagner and Leventhal will remain at Watermark as elders emeritus. Ive never heard of nor attended a church with such a position. Wagner has always surrounded himself with yes men. The streamlined interface is proper for any user, no matter if that individual is used to dealing with such software or . Psychological warfare Is a good name for it. Its how relationships are formed and accountability is established or thats what they want you to think. The state of California and Los Angeles have agreed to pay $800,000 in legal fees to settle their lawsuit with John MacArthur's church over COVID-19 lockdown rules. I verified it. No One Knows. Not Todds decision but good try on the poor stewardship bit. Show me one bit of Biblical historicity in favor of the modern seeker-oriented megachurch. So, if they can sell their copyrighted material, that is just the same as authors getting paid for their writing or bible study writers selling their studies in bookstores. Came off as legalistic trolling. They were not giving Him a standing ovation. . https://www.watermark.org/about/governance. Seems there are some Watermark menbers In the video, Wagner said that the clarity to step down was not hasty, adding that the discernment process had started a year ago. In January, Wagner returned from leave to preach his first sermon and received a standing ovation from the congregation. You do make the near perfect member with your automated trust in leadership, over having an open mind to others sharing their personal experiences. He did end the video by defining what HE thought the three marks of a cult were: Im going to address #3, because I did my own Google search of the Dallas County Central Appraisal District and discovered that Todd Wagner lives in a $1.5 million dollar home in a very prestigious area of Dallas. Its a huge red flag to me about Todds character and understanding of God. When this article was written, * For What? I will never forget the screams of desperation and loss I felt as a young Christian woman. I think one can probably make a case for it using Scripture, but I think Elder-Rule ignores the Scriptural precedence of independent accountability: In terms of two doctrinal statements, what this does is set up an inner ring of people who more closely align with the beliefs of the church (and by church, I mean elders). Small group of meeting once a week. Elder and staff member David Leventhal stepped down in late March, citing "an erosion of trust" in Wagner's ability to lead. Even now, her parents (who worship there) refuse to talk to her or visit her children, simply because she was dutiful enough to report on the pedophile acts of a man who used to work at Prestonwood. Wagner founded Watermark in 1999 with the expressed purpose of ministering to "the unchurched, dechurched, dead-churched and unmoved." The church grew rapidly and now has campuses in Dallas, Frisco, and Plano. Its gotten popular which makes me suspect. Regardless we know Romans 8:28 maybe its a season of 2 Tim 3:16-17. He added that he and Wagner are good and there is no anger, malice, or slander between them. Many churches won't consider an openly gay man or woman for the clergy. TWW last left Wagner on leave due to pride in Todd Wagner, the Controversial Pastor of Watermark Church, Steps Away *for a Season. I am certainly not an atheist and am a regular church attender. I asked Susan if she wouldnt mind answering a few questions for this post, which she was happy to do. Also I probably would be off my depression meds. The Christian Post's Leonardo Blair wrote an eyeopening post titled Dallas megachurch pastor who confessed to sin of pride resigns. Churches that utilize a confession like the Westminster, 1689, or the 39 articles seem comfortable requiring specificity in their doctrine for both members and pastors I think this is more transparent, and thus healthier, than having two statements. After hearing Todds sermon, I left the building thinking pride comes before the fall will be evidenced in that man someday. So recent events are unsurprising to me. Izael who are you to judge someone elses experience? Darren, I think I get where youre coming from with the idea of a teaching statement. He was then the most arrogant and disrespectful person imaginable. Another requirement for membership is that you find an area in which to serve in the church. Im happy to answer any questions, but you need to know this is absolutely wrong information. Todd portrays it all as a divine God told me sort of thing. Your savior folks, going to church doesnt do anything, sometimes you find someone youve known for years will disappoint you, devil can sit right next or you until you have spiritual discernment snd understating. Mind Games The Bizarre & Controling Culture of If youd like a suggestion for a charity outside of our church well gladly help you. They dont even take a collection in church! Get new articles and breaking news delivered to your inbox. Wagner said he is excited about what God is going to do at the church in its next season and urged the congregation to obey their leaders. Youve been a member at Watermark for ~6 years, and how many times have you talked to each elder? Todd could use he had no use for you. But, we ALL should be. that is, if we keep Jesus Christ as part of the equation, with an understanding that more is incumbent on leaders than on others. It also means sharing your entire financial portfolio and giving away the freedom to make any life decisions apart from the community group. It is all about leveraging God not for the good of the people but for bragging rights about how successful they are. Why not leave the congregation entirely and allow it to heal under new leadership? It is Not referenced as a legal tool which may be weaponized against anyone they desire to control or experiment on. I have no doubt there are many many more victims. (How many of you have actually prayed for Todd)? May we bear one anothers confessions with grace and mercy. I was informed that this was a gift from a wealthy individual who has known Todd a long time and does not attend Watermark. Wagner is a bully. I hope that you can come to a place of understanding and compassion for victims of churches who abuse their members. One of the core values of the community groups is Live Authentically, which they define as being completely honest with one anotherthis means giving others permission to know the real you by sharing authentically. This includes sharing your sins, struggles, along with your entire life story, potentially to a room full of complete strangers. Thats what they all seem to do. Friends, theres a lot of speculation here. Ive said my bit, not interested in burning much more time, unless you or anyone wants to leave a number to meet to discuss Jesus, WM or Todd. It shocks me how much fear this church has put inside of the people who dared leave it. Months of turmoil at the church not for the good of the people but for bragging rights about successful. Answering a few questions for this site, and how many times have you talked to elder. Time and does not mean they didnt happen to someone else along watermark church lawsuit your life. 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